We have already read Strategic Relocation and the Secure Home. We live about 14 miles from the center of a state capital (population about 300,000) in the southeastern United States. After a couple of years of mulling things over, recent events have convinced us we need a retreat. Here are my three choices:
- A very rural, rolling, low population area about 50 miles "further out" from my current location, but still east of the Appalachians.
- A very rural, mountainous, low population area about 150 miles "further out" from my current location, within the Appalachians.
- A very rural, hilly, low population area about 250 miles "further out" from my current location, just west of the Appalachians.
I am choosing between a retreat that is within an hour's drive (one day on a bike, two days on foot) but that is east of the Appalachians, versus two other retreats that are in or west of the mountains, but much farther away. Because of my work, I cannot relocate to the retreat every time things look shaky, but may have to wait until "the last minute" (whatever that is).
All other factors being equal, which locations sounds the most optimal?
Thanks ahead of time for your thoughts!
You should always first go by your instincts and then read books on the subject of strategic location.. I have done this but was not satisfied so i consulted with Mr. Skousen over the phone and realized that where ever you go to live it should be an area somewhere on this planet where people over the years have had experience storing food and water.. The Mormons in Utah are a classic example.. You want to be around people who share the same thoughts as yourself.. I'm planning on relocating to Utah instead of northern New England.. If you plan on staying in the USA the western states are a good choice because they won't have the enormous amounts of nuclear radiation fallout as the eastern states would.. Remember that radiation travels downwind and from west to east.. More on this subject later- Ted
Hi Lloyd.
I enthusiastically support Teds thoughts. Trying to "go it alone" is difficult, at best.
You make some very good points and if I might share an observation, it seems to me that your thought processes are serving you well. I'll also go on record as one who believes that this situation is far from over. We are going to face a certain economic impact, changes in lifestyle due to increased security measures. There is the almost certainty of additional terror attacks if for no other reason, to retaliate for any action we might take in the future.
As I type this, I am hearing NBC news reporting that the Chinese are not being very cooperative and that the terrorists may have gotten into the financial markets. From what I heard, they are alluding this goes beyond this mornings report that Bin Laden sold the market short in anticipation of this incident. Seems that the more this play out, the worse its getting.
First, let me compliment you on your decision if I may and add that now is the time to put an alternative plan firmly in place. We will certainly be in the minority but then, we would have been in the minority last Monday, the 10th if anyone here would have even suggested that events which did take place only 24 hours later woun, indeed happen.
From reading Joels books, you have probably noted that conventional wisdom suggests that a "retreat" should be over 1 tank of gas from a major population center. However, balance that against one of the top dangers: Travel.
Probably like myself, you are planning to "time" you exodus early on, as a situation is developing and a decision has been made to head out. Leaving at this time might be safe/possible. Let me share that I have had to re-think that stratagy, a retrenching motivated by the events of the past 7 days.
From the perspective of being a distance rider for 12 years, I would suggest that going by bike is, IMHO out of the question unless under the most dire circumstances. Unless you are in top shape and a regular rider, after you've been riding for while in the "making time mode," its tough to outrun somebodys dog.
Locating 250 miles away is perhaps the best approach at first glance however, it will be hardest to get to. That will undoubtedly influence your decision to relocate. Delaying that decision could significantly impact you and your family's safety and well-being.
My vote would be to select the 150 mile away area but find a place well off the beaten path but near a small but moral community. Locating outside (NE) of Johnson City, TN is one option we have been considering.
150 miles is a 3 hour trip but plan for 5 hours. Make sure that any "largesh" cities have back roads around them. That, for obvious reasons.
My situation is such that I too have not yet gone out and actually located/built/bought a retreat. Although we live on a small farm in a rural area, I am still far to close to a major metropolitan area for any level of comfort. However, that is about to change.
During the events of last Tuesday, I staged a "mental exercise," if you will and went through the decision processes associated with changing locations as that situation unfolded. Let me generally share what that entailed.
I would be a little nervous leaving valuables at a part time location so our general plan is below.
I have a Dodge/Cummins 3500 with which we use to pull our Gooseneck horse trailer. Being diesel, it has considerable range. Our plan would be to load those items we have at the house that would be basically propositioned for relocation onto the horse trailer and head out.
We felt this process would take about 2 hours.
A few additional thoughts, optimal relocation might take 2 trips. Essentials would go on trip #1 with an optional 2nd trip to come back with the truck only, pick up our flat bed, load our farm tractor and farm implements such as the plow, disc and cultivator on it. Maybe throw 4-6 55 gallon drums of what would be extra diesel fuel in the bed, fill them from the big tank and head back out.
We felt this process would take about 2 hours.
Good discussion. Maybe Ed will chime in here.
Best
It all makes good sense to me.... we all have good ideas of what we want to have but the reality of economics often paints a different picture. Just having a strategic plot of land with nothing more than pre-planted fruit bearing trees and herbs and pre-prepared garden (square patch with manure tilled in...), a solar powered or hand powerable water well, pre-installed septic and some kind of shelter.... you will be light years ahead of the crowds.
Just do the best you can.
Lloyd:
I wrote you a private note. Did you get it?
Hi Ed!
Ripple:
Yep, got it!
Haven't checked email in awhile.
I'll respond when I can find some quality time (things are a little hectic around here right now, as you can probably imagine).
Lloyd
Roger-doger. I only ask because sometimes, my "wonderful" @home mail sends messages that are never delivered yet are enver returned.
I think its an Excite! issue.
Type to you soon.
I checked out Utah (Provo area) but I had a few problems with it. It's very flat in the valley with little vegitation, so you're very out in the open (no where to hide). It's very crowded in the valley, which is not good for a bio attack. Water seems like it could be a problem since it is basically a desert. Lack of water could also be a problem when trying to grow food later. Also, the high concentration of religious types (the Mormons) could make them a target of either the Gov't or Muslims. And since most people know about the Mormon's preparedness, they would be the first people to check out for provisions, etc. Basically, it just didn't feel right to me. I'd rather take my chances with the fallout in the Appalachians where I can be better secluded and have plenty of water and vegitation.
The best place is North/central Idaho. Low elevation, warm long growing season, lots of rainfall. There are also losts of mountains and hills to hide in. Wind paterns are great against fallout of any kind. No large or strategic populations to target by bio. I have lived here for 8 years, I moved up from southern Idaho and couldn't believe the difference. it's like a paradise, lots of wild game for food, wide fruit all over even alonf the roads, pears, apples, plums and more. There is also awide variety of wild growing herbs both for medicinal and food.
Lynn
Lynn,
If your part of Idaho is a paradise, it must be a lot different from the Idaho Panhandle, at least when I lived there.
I moved out of the Sandpoint-Bonners Ferry area in 1986, after living 10 years there. During that time, the influx of people was heavy, many coming from southern California cities. Some were just average people (a lot of LA cops), but also a lot were on the fringe of the law or worse. A lot of drug dealers (the road into Canada was a major drug route), people hiding out from the law, paramilitary types, skinheads, you name it, they were all spread out in their little backwoods acreages and most wanted little to do with their neighbors.
Personally, I lived on a remote mountainside and had the dubious honor of living next door to a suspected bank robber/drug dealer. She was finally sent to prison for harboring convicted spy Christopher Boyce.
In my opinion, if you want to find a quiet retreat, avoid the "touristy" and scenic spots that attract the loonies -- like Panhandle Idaho -- and seek out a quiet midwest rural retreat far from any sizeable town. If it's been discovered, it's probably not secure.
Bruce
Bruce...
I agree that northern Idaho is not the paradise it once was. I am currently looking at northern Mexico, the state of Chihuahua. In the 1800s some of the Mormon pioneers went there and some of their descendants are still there today. I'm wondering if, given the kind of compromises our govt has made (willing to sell out our Rights for a bit of "security") it might be wise to look outside our borders. The life is slower and lower tech in Mexico, and the people are generally poor hard-working folk. I have been on some sites that are used by US citizens who are relocating to Mexico, and they indicate a good condition there. Does anyone on this discussion board know anything about Mexico?
Also, I recently signed on with Anonymizer.com for secure surfing and e-mail. I suggest anyone using Joel's site for discussion consider using their service. They have a free trial deal, and a $5 monthly deal with more services. We can all use more privacy here in the "land of the First Amendment!"
I have traveled in Mexico and while the country is indeed slower and low tech (translated: simpler), I would have to agree with Mr. Skousen's analysis: that the government and local officials are very corrupt. If they wanted to boot you out of your cushy villa, they could do so easily--and you would have no recourse legally or otherwise. And while many Mexicans possess guns, U.S. citizens may not use that method to defend themselves.
America may have its problems, but south of the border has its share too. There is a group of U.S. citizens living just across the Texas border. They have nice homes and are self sufficient, and they commute to their jobs in Texas. But I have been told by someone who knows them that at any time the federales could come in and take over.
I also know a couple who tow their airstream trailer to Puerto Vallarta every fall and fish and kick back all winter. But the locals very much resent the intrusion by the rich gringos, and they can and do make life hard for the transients from El Norte. Recently the entire trailer park was bulldozed during the summer for no apparent reason. The only explanation offered was "This is Mexico not America." Now they have to find another haven.
What I want to do is to find a 6 acre minimum piece of woods to buy, preferably in the back of someones farm. Put two used mobile homes with sloped roofs. I would put in a well and conventional septic. The homes would have wood stoves installed. They would be on Thick concrete slabs about 30 inches wider than the mobiles and thirty inches longer than the mobiles. The slabs should be thick enough that I could tunnel underneath for additional shelter space eventually. With the mobiles there you have shelter. Immediately. As finances become availible you could put a 6 inch double stud and gravel wall for ballistic protection. Then later a 6 ich thick log wall with rebar placed between each row of logs.
I would place the two mobiles side by side with about forty feet apart. Connecting the two would be a garage/shop with a high security shelter underneath. A twelve foot addition to the outside of each trailer would provide extra storage rooms and bedrooms on one trailer and a full length green house on the other. I would put an 6 inch roof over the mobiles for additional insulation. I would go with sheet metal for the roof covering with eave troughs connected to a couple of 15oo gallon plastic cisterns burried under one of the addiions.
What I want to do is to build a small barn to keep a few chickens, two cows (non related), a bull (Non related), some sheep, etc. Does anyone have any ideas about keeping animals alive during long term crisis? Maybe some radiation shielding, a cistern or two, connect the barn to the house with a tunnel. Any thoughts?
I can be reached by snail mail at BOX 742, Montello, WI 53949. I would like to put together a book/booklet on this subject. If you have any ideas please send them along. You send me what you got, I'll send you what I come up with.
I can give some suggestions on the idea of animals. We moved to a 12-acre homestead 2.5 years ago and have gradually begun accumulating livestock.
My first suggestion would be to forget the cows and go for goats instead. Cows take a great quantity of pasture and feed to keep them in milk--they are also expensive to purchase initially. Goats are much less expensive to buy and maintain and produce high quality milk. The meat is also supposed to be very good--similar to venison.
Another suggestion would be to keep ducks instead of chickens. Chickens are very prone to disease and quite finicky about housing requirements, whereas ducks are much more hardy. Ducks also lay quite well and can be eaten much the same as chickens.
For housing, a concrete block barn would probably be a good idea. I hadn't thought too much along those lines, but it would be a good thing to consider.