How does anyone feel about the recent threats by China that it will be invading Taiwan within the next 5 years? Is anybody out there preparing for this? Let's communicate.
It's not a threat, just an open ended promise.
2004-2010 seems to be the time period when the East attacks the West led by Russia..
There's a good possibility but I think there would have to be a diversion of some sort. They are not ready yet to take on a US action. Maybe they could help stage a problem in Korea thus diverting our carrier strength or they could take advantage of the possible coming middle east fight to make a move. Even a combination of problems could take place allowing them to take advantage of the weakened state of the military. And don't forget about India and Pakistan. Whatever the case they are in the process and all that will be needed is the right set of actions taken at the right time.
The Chinese are becoming a major player in the World. They already represent a military threat and will soon be an economic one. They are truly the "sleeping giant" of this Century. How we handle them will largely be dictated on how strong our nuclear arsenal is. We not only need a good defensive missile shield, but a potent offensive capability. That is why I'm becoming concerned by GW talks of cutting back on our number of nukes. If its just talk, fine, but we need more nukes, not less, and we need even better delivery systems, etc..
As for the reference to the India and Pakistan problem, I'd advise backing India, they already recognize China as a threat and we could benefit by showing them some covert military support. They are potentially the ONLY powerful ally in the region.
On the other hand, maybe, GW is just preparing us for surrender?
Sir 'H'
The thing about India is that Putin is trying very hard to bring them into a new axis also including China, North Korea and Arab nations like Iran and Iraq. I think Russia's influence in regards to weapon system sales could become the glue that binds this corrupt bee hive together. If a new problem surfaces(say in the middle east) with Russia at the helm,China then could move at Taiwan. If India receives military aide from Russia which it always has in the past(and is receiving now) I wouldn't count on them being much of a friend.
Forget nukes--why punish the people when it's their leaders that are going to push the button? If they know they'll be cremated shortly after saying "Fire!" they may think twice. Wouldn't you?
I don't know that China has a delivery system capable of reaching the East Coast of yet. Certainly, the West Coast is in question.
I live on a farm 25 mi outside of Norfolk, VA (can you spell "Crater"? Have been considering moving or at least buying land west of the Blue Ridge perhaps in TN. However, the same problems plague me as others in making these decisions, job, family, etc.. The question is what to do?
What are others doing?
Here are some links to provide further insight:
http://www.fas.org/nuke/
Here is a state by state list of targets:
http://www.webpal.org/list.htm
Would appreciate sharing serious correspondence on this issue.
Yes India is up for grabs, but they see China a real threat and have already had regional problems with them. Their biggest stumbling block to being a major world player is their religious factionalism. Still, if they were aligned with us via Diplomatic channels, they could provide a serious check on China.
As far as forgetting Nukes, I am curious about those who would dismiss the positive effect that the U.S. arsenal has had on world stability. More nukes, more subs and a space based missile platform system and the era of world peace could be upon us(or conversely, world dictatorship). Its not a question of if this is going to happen, just of who will do it and when.
As to the issue of punishing people for their leaders transgressions. While it may not be fair, until we begin to eliminate those leaders which threaten us, then their entire population will at risk. Which position is more moral? Better that one man should die, than an entire nation......
My advise concerning Taiwan is to sell them sealed tactical Nukes of limited range. Just enough to protect their immediate area. They could be protected by seals and a self-destruct mechanism if tampered with and should be inspected regularly. In addition we could design and build a missile shield that would protect their island nation. (Notice I used the word sell and not give?)
China has all the blueprints they need to build a long range missile system. (Our traitorous Government has seen to that) Recent news reports indicate that they now have a space program and will soon be only the third country in the world to put astronauts in orbit. (Using our long range missile technology of course)
Sir 'H'
The Chinese have a long range system, in fact more than one of them. The DF-31 is a new road mobile system with dead accuracy components. They tested it when Shelton was there just a while ago and it was a huge success. Also the new DF-41 utilizes topol-m tech from the Russkies. This doesn't count their ICBM capability. As as India goes forget it. They're in the process right now ironing out the border problems with China. Putin is gluing together a pact with them including China and the Arabs. I believe they will go along with it, I mean dealing with neighbor counties like China and Russia is more likely than handshakes from the US across an ocean.
All the more reason to have more Nukes, not less.
I think we should supply short range tactical Nukes to many countries in hot spots around the world, maybe they will all blow each other up and leave us alone
I'm just kidding mostly!
Dear Patriots Mother: You must remember that alot (not all) the nukes will be used on military targets (their airfields, missile silos, naval bases not just their major cities). Yes alot of children will suffer as they do in all wars. Alot of our problems started at the end of WWII when we didn't extend a hand to the Chinese (at that time our ally, and we also shouldn't have helped the Russians) remember they invaded Poland from the east before Hitler gobbled it all up. But we also have to remember that our cities are targets also that's why we need an SDI program.
Today I read an interesting article in Stratfor (sorry Joel). It stated that the captured EP-3 aircraft was tracing new Chicom sub tech. The Chicoms just fielded two new subs, a Kilo and a Victor III. Both are armed with anti-ship cruise missiles(maybe Russkie shipwreck missiles). Also, I read an article yesterday that the US was tracing the Chicom Skrovmenny(?) destroyers armed with Moskit anti-ship missiles. If both articles are true then what we could have is a Chicom battle group forming. The Chicoms might have been perturbed we were monitoring the communications and maneuvers of this battle group which is designed to intercept our carriers. Also they might be testing new systems like schwall torpedoes acquired from Russikieville. A new battle group formed of these destroyers, advanced carrier killer subs, and massive air cover could neutralize or minimize a US defensive position regarding Taiwan. Wait and see but things are bound to get better.
I'll take this opportunity to toot the "Buy American" horn.
Sam Walton is an American. His stores, Walmart and Sam's Club, sell American product where possible.
COSCO, stands for "Chinese Offshore Shipping Company". I think you can figure out who owns it and where the money goes.
You can either remember that before you walk in the door, or when the missles you help them build (with your financial support) come landing on you.
Wake up my fellow American and see the true color of the Chinese Communist.
The ChiCom "damaged" and "Shanghai" our plane in international waters, "kidnapped" and "jailed" our guys in uniforms, "stole" our secret, "confiscated" our equipment, "humiliated" us in public and now wants us to "kowtow" and "admit our mistakes"!
What's next? Charge us for "Room and Board", "landing fees" and "guards" expenses!
Thank you very much, Mr. Clinton.
Thought for the day. You know maybe the capture of the EP-3 wasn't an accident. In light of Joel's last newsletter per chance the aircraft was allowed to go closer to the Chicoms than was wise. Now I'm not making accusations and we know how loyal the last eight years have been but it does give one room for thought. The seizure of the plane would give the Chicoms a great source of Intel info but would open the door to the sale of advanced systems to Taiwan. This would tic off the Chicoms even worse than the aircraft's incursion. I mean the Chicoms already know practically everything about us so what's the lost of a surveillance plane(as long as we get the crew back safely). Our people must have realized how angry the Chicoms were getting and the possibility of some incident was increasing. I'm only speculating though.
I've thought the same thing Shoots. I can't imagine Reagan would have been as "diplomatic" as Bush is being. Are the Chinese enemies or allies? Allies would not keep our equipment and air crew from us. We need to treat the Chinese as they treat us, enemies. Blockade the island, send commandos in to rescue the air crew and then destroy the airplane and all the intelligence gathering apparatus on the island.
The Red Chinese are enemies of the USA, but are definitely allies of Boeing, Honeywell, Litton, United Technologies, G.E., Raytheon, and a host of other big companies. (Before retirement, I used to work for 2 of the above) They obviously have additional allies within the US government. I like Tom's idea of the raid, but it would probably be compromised by insiders. What better way to embarrass a republican president and further humiliate and demoralize the biggest holdout against the NWO.
A few years ago a raid might have worked but in these days it would be a no-no. A show of strength on our part might derail the Chicom overall strategy of retaking the island by force thus upsetting the whole timetable of events. In normal times, once we made sure our people were safe, we would demand our plane back and we would get it back, piece by piece. Using this as a pretext we could then parachute a airborne division into Panama and for good measure seize the container shipping port in the Bahamas. I detest the fact that the Chicoms, of all people, have these two possessions. Then we could use the WTO membership and PNTR status as levers of advantage. As a trump card,if worst came to worst, we could immediately give the Taiwanese all the military assistance their little hearts desired. The fact that seems to be ignored is the US holds all the cards and I think the Chicoms know it( or they better anyway). Of course sadly these aren't normal times but that still doesn't change the fact we want our people back and now!
Living in a military area sometimes has its advantages. I have it on very good authority that the planes engine was damaged by cannon fire.
I have personally seen what happens when the prop of a taxiing Navy E-2C Hawkeye hit a 150# flight line CO2 fire extinguisher mounted on a cart. The E2-C props turning at a constant 80% of full speed and the pilot pitches the blades to increase thrust. The 3 blades of the prop basically dissolved instantly upon impact. IMHO, the prop I saw did not impact something within it's turning radius. Next time the opportunity presents itself, look at the damage to our plane, especially the prop involved. There are chunks out of it. There is one in particular about 1/3 the way from the prop tip that is somewhat circular in shape. Sure looks like the what a 20MM cannon shell would do. Continuing, but on more a speculative basis built from the preceding analysis, the same source said it would not have been uncommon for what he termed a "frustrated fighter pilot" who did not quality for performance aircraft was detailed to the multi-engine community. After the Chinese pilot fired upon him, he might have brought his aircraft close aboard on one side for the purpose of signaling the E-3's pilot to land. Were the 2 planes wings overlapping, a P-O'ed E-3 pilot, after getting his plane shot up, would only have to put the stick (he said wheel) hard over causing the E-3 to violently roll to one side. The greater mass and control surface area of the larger airplane would cause the strong wing of the E-3 to impact the wing of small fighter. Where it substantial and well placed, such a impact could cause the smaller fighter to loose control and cartwheel right into the sea. Add the data which suggests Chinese pilot skills are considered to be inferior, I don't have great problems with that scenario. If this is indeed accurate and both sides know the true facts behind the incident, this could explain the diplomatic intransigence on the part of both sides.
The 3 blades of the prop basically dissolved instantly upon impact.
"This should read: 3 of the 4 blades of the prop basically dissolved instantly upon impact."
Sorry.
I noticed the same thing about the props. I also noticed on the TV news clips several elongated holes and one irregularly shaped hole or gouge that appeared to be an inward facing artifact on the underside of the wings centered near the engine cowling somewhat in line with the prop shaft / turbo shaft itself. I've seen plenty of real live action and damn if my brain didnt scream SHRAPNEL and / or concentrated fire of some sort towards the engines. That kind of damage only comes from grenades (which is what a cannon shell is ) , or armor penetrating AP ammunition.
This whole thing stinks to high heaven. We all know who the Bush's really work for ("out of chaos will come a new world order......").
Dont you believe for an instant that line of drap that Bush is here to save us nationally. Our government is infested, yeah, saturated with traitors and Quislings seeking their own fame and fortune, both individual and on a corporate basis. You should realize this if you are genuinely following what your instincts and good Christian concious is telling you. Speaking of which, I get goosebumps on nearly a regular basis now......
ANNNND. The latest video clips on the news hour indicate to me that our servicemen are at the minimum being exhaustively interrogated (I didnt use the gentler words "interviewed", or "questioned"). They clearly appear to have been roughed up. Several appeared to be under the influence of strong drugs of some sort. I bet that they are not fed adequately nor allowed to sleep.
Our guys, or your sons (and daughters?) are being abused, drugged, and tortured to some extent meanwhile our fearless leaders are 'negotiating' and having 'meaningful dialogue'. The visual signs even during the TV news clips are unmistakeable to the trained eye.
What would YOU be saying if you were one of those Americans being treated like that? Do you realize what could be going through their minds right now?
They did not land on that island by choice. Period. They are trained to ditch at sea, and they know very well that they would be picked up by friendlies within hours, certainly within the day. They have beacons and sat. radios in their ditch gear.
These planes are very very very very special and they just dont go around un-supported or keenly observed. They would rather hit the drink than hand over what they are sitting in.
I cant talk about the specific capabilities of this equipment but let me just say that if we can make a cryogenic radio receiver that can pick off an individual phone conversation off of a ordinary telephone line strung up on a pole from over five miles away or a main phone system trunk under similar conditions via detecting the electromagnetic leakage from the cable itself, all fitting into an average size suitcase ... well lets just say Santa Claus landed in China a bit early this year.
The media is incredibly, grossly understating the technology. Maybe the worst part is that they got the whole antenna system. Anyone close to radios know that the antenna is what really makes the system.
The nose of the plane was removed by setting off squibs that fired explosive bolts to release the nose of the plane, where extremely sensitive classified low noise cryogenic receiver processing circuits were located. It was not knocked off in any collision. There was NO collision. Collusion maybe, but no collision.
Why do they use a propeller driven plane, do you ask? Because the system is so sensitive that the static electricity generated by the air rushing over the skin of the plane is too hot and noisy in a jet driven plane due to the airspeed. Static on the prop blades is isolated and grounded. They want to go as slow as possible to cut this noise so they can get more range on their pickups.
Keep your eyes open and your minds sharp. Dont get taken by the shell game.
I certainly know what I would of done in any circumstance.
1) Let them return within 36 hours or I will issue a PDD or EO breaking all diplomatic ties and 100% embargo on Chinese made goods whether wholly or partly manufatured by the PRC mainland.
2) Kick out all PRC diplomats, aids, and cancel all immigration of any sort, revoke all VISA's except not related to study or family or assylum purposes.
3) Rebuild America's industrial base as best we can and damned the interim economic consequences.
Chicom bears a coming? I just had a interesting thought. Since we told Chicomland that we would continue our surveillance flights maybe old Putin de Russikieville could come in with a little help. He could offer to sell the Chicoms bear bombers equipped for surveillance work. They could be outfitted with long range fuel tanks and the latest info tech including reverse engineered stuff. These aircraft could be stationed in none other than good old Cuba. The Chicoms could then get a chance to try out their aerial refueling techniques they learned from us. They could fly up and down the east coast and wallah! By the way I agree with the assessments about the damage to the props and the radome made above.
Ok, I got a little detailed. Here's one that tells all and is very simple.
Question: "If there were a collision, then where are the scratch marks, scrapes, and paint transfer that would otherwise normally happen in any auto collision or scrape up?
All I see are holes.
Thanks to Ripple and Edward McGee for the detail. This is the kind of information which makes this forum valuable. If our aircraft was indeed shot up, that answers two puzzling questions raised by Joel in his latest newsletter:
1) What caused the aircraft to land at an enemy base rather than ditching, which is what they should have done? Answer: A VERY credible threat to shoot down the aircraft with the loss of 24 lives if they did not surrender and land at the Chinese base. Faced with that threat, I'm not surprised if someone made the call to land as directed.
2) Why are our guys allowing the Chinese version of the story to stand undisputed, pretending that they don't have the facts on what actually happened, i.e. they are suppressing those facts? Answer: If it were publicly known that the Chinese shot up a US aircraft and forced it to surrender, we would lose the "diplomatic" option and be forced to choose between a serious response, or being revealed as cowards who back down from a fight.
Is the "victim" once again covering up for the abuser in order to avoid public humiliation?
Thanks Ripple,
I've been preparing actively for at least 5 years.I came back from Japan in 1995 after that lousy Kobe earthquake burned me out and effectively destroyed my technical translation business; re-started from zero. I'm interested in ham radio and I have a receiver and some 2meter / 440 gear but I dont use it because I dont have a license yet.
I'm moving to rural northeast texas in the next several months on a relocation package at work. San Francisco is just too much, but it served its purpose.
Getting fully prepared isnt easy financially, but like any long walk up-hill, its a little at a time.
All I can say is buy buy buy buy and then buy extra. Just remember you are trading worthless paper for physical items that at least have barter value. Dont bother balancing your checkbook, you'll just break out in hives, so rip it up.
I've got a whopper of a story I think I can go public with now. I was a guest on a local radio station 2 years ago about my testimony to the Cox committee on Chinese tech transfer. I talked to Sandy Burger.......
more to come folks.
I like Pat Buchanan's take on this:
"What's happened here is the Chinese have intercepted an American plane, forced it down, stripped it, held our people hostage -- and then demanded an apology from the United States.... This was a defeat for the United States every day it went on, it was a humiliation for the United States.
"Instead of offering an apology, we should have demanded one, and I think the United States and its prestige have been seriously damaged in Asia. As for China, they have behaved in a Cold War fashion and got the United States of America to bend to their will.
"It is an unmitigated defeat for Mr. Bush."
I think Tom that this definitely has been a defeat, so far, but I also think that something positive could be salvaged. For instance, if we were to suspend PNTR for say a year and if we didn't get our people back, we could stop all economic business for maybe the same amount of time. It's our huge trade imbalance with the Chicoms that's fueling their arms buildup anyway. This could in turn allow us to start putting our military back in shape. It would easily take that long if not much longer. Money and brute force seem to be the only way to get the message across to the other side. One thing seems sure, we'll look worse and worse the longer we appear undecided about what we're going to do.
After some thought I think it could be possible that maybe this Chicom pilot never crashed and this could be some form of massive disinformation. I agree that the radome could have been jettisoned by our pilot and there seems to be cannon holes in the prop but the damage from a collision big enough to bring down a fighter is lacking. The Chicoms are telling our media that their pilot went in but so far there's no wreckage or body. The Chicoms could be just trying to get sympathy while instilling anger in their own people against the US. Meanwhile Chicom Wong(their pilot) is laughing and sipping tea with his comrades. Also their ultimate goal of stopping the arming of Taiwan and derailing NMD is on track. I think there is a distinct possibility they just fired at our plane, forced it down, and staged the demise of their flyer. Disinformation at it's maximum best!
We, the "great unwashed", will probably never find out the truth.
All I know is that the Internal Robbery Service keeps coming back again and again meanwhile we get all these lies and are purposely being exposed to a great many hazards.
The government treats us like chickens in an egg factory stuffed in a little shoe-box cage, in the dark, meanwhile squirting out dollar bills all day long for them.
All I can say now is just get ready folks, if you know what I mean. Keep what's left of America strong!
"The Chicoms could be just trying to get sympathy while instilling anger in their own people against the US. Meanwhile Chicom Wong(their pilot) is laughing and sipping tea with his comrades."
A good point. Remember the role of "Arise ye Russian People" in beginning of Red Storm Rising.
I have a more direct question to the group.
A: What does this series of developments mean to each of us on an individual basis?
B: To speak to Marcus' original question, has anyone considered, planned or taken any preparation steps?
Can it happen here? Well, I don't expect to be in a car wreck but do have insurance. (Thats an old, well worn monnicher but an accurate one).
I don't take claim to being a hand-wringer but I must admit concern. There are certainly a lot of legitimate issues before us in both the immediate and near term than I have seen on my plate during my 47 years. The good news is we live on a working farm. The bad news is that its about 22 miles out of Norfolk, VA.
BTW: I've been a ham for 28 years and an SWBC listener for 30 so will offer this information to the group:
If any of you have Shortwave, you can hear more "unfiltered" news there than any other source. By filtering, I mean that our press has not applied their spin to what would be the official position of a particular government.
In situations like this, I have found it best to seek out several news sources, realize their particular brand of spin then balance what you hear and arrive at your own conclusion. Listen to the tone of the rhetoric, it can speak volumes. Here is an overview:
BBC: 15.220 and 17.840 are good during the day. 9.515 is ok in the morning and 5.975 and 6.175 go about all night.
Taiwan: Voice of Free China broadcasts on 5.950 during the evenings out of Sackville, NB. They are listed as transmitting in English from 0200-0400UTC. 9PM-12AM EDST)
Mainland China: China Radio International is on in English 5.990 from 2300-2357 UTC (7-8PM EDST) broadcasting out of a Cuban relay transmitter. (I just checked, they are indeed on). Also on 9.730 at 0330 (11:30PM EDST)
Israel:
Here is the WWW Site of KOL Israel:
http://www.israelradio.org/
No SW radio? You should have one.
Here is a link to stations that broadcast over the net:
http://www.vision.net.au/~vk0kdm/index1d.htm
Here is a search engine that is fairly accurate in finding SWBC stations schedules:
http://hfradio.org/hffreq/
Perhaps it is indeed time discuss what steps should be taken on an invididual or even group basis should the plethora of "situations" escillate further. As Marcus said: "Lets talk."
How true Ed, how true. We'll probably make some secret compromise agreement to get our people back and the first thing they'll be told is to keep their yaps shut tight. They'll probably never stray from the original Chicom story for fear of jeopradizing any compromise. Maybe the only ones that saw what happenned where the flight crew in the cockpit area. The rest of the compilment were at work in the fuselage area unable to see outside the aircraft. As for Capt. Wong Way, if he did survive, he probably was greeted by a cheering , saluting groundcrew then escorted into a hanger to get whacked over the head by a piece of scrap aircraft spar. Then they'll throw his carcass in salt water for a while. The next thing we'll know we'll have a body and some damaged aircraft parts. Pedal to metal disinformation, Chicom style!