Just wondering if anyone knows of a good emergency wood burning stove that can be used in an emergency. I'm thinking along the lines of something that might require poking a hole thru a wall for a stack, or something like that.
Typically, anything woodburning will require special considerations for the flue pipe since the heat generated would create a substantial fire-danger. You will need someone who knows what they are doing to help with the installation.
I would suggest having something installed now as an addition to your home, rather than getting something you could "hook up" in the event of an emergency. Any cast-iron type stove would probably do, though many have better heat output through catalytic converters, etc.
Your local fireplace supplier would have some good ideas to get you started, then you could take that information and find something cheaper in the classifieds.
Thanks AB for the great info.
If you rent your house, it may not be practical for you to punch holes through walls. I rented a house in California in the late 1990s and decided to get a small wood stove that could be installed in an existing fireplace. I've never used that stove, and it's still in its crate, but if I ever need to heat my basement with wood in an emergency, you can guess what I'll be doing with it.
When I purchased the stove, the salesman gave me a warning. He said that in California the insurance companies required wood stoves to be "certified". This cheap made-in-China model was not certified. Check for your locality.
Make sure you've got a skirt of brick or tile for at least 12 - 18" past the front of the stove (ash and hot coals *will* fall out).
Chimney pipe is expensive, especially the double-wall type. A friend of mine has some galvanized air ducts that I thought of using as an improvised chimney liner. Does anyone know whether heated galvanized metal will emit noxious fumes?
Years ago I saw a cabin with a home-made chimney pipe projecting through a wall at an angle. Perhaps you could use the same principle, but project the chimney through a window. Use a fireproof material like DuraRock (sheets of concrete-type material used in place of dry-wall around fireplaces). You might pre-cut some DuraRock to fit a window and your chimney pipe. DuraRock could also be placed behind and under the stove to protect the wall and floor from the stove's heat. It isn't pretty stuff, so a coat of paint might help too.
Galvanized metal that is very hot will give off zinc-oxide fumes, which are highly poisonous. Welders who must weld galvanized materials must take special precautions. I am not sure how hot a galvanized pipe must be to give off the fumes, But I wouldn't chance it on the interior of the home.
Also, when ducting pipe outside through a window opening, the part that is horizontal must be truely horizontal (exactly parallel to the ground). Don't make it go up at an angle as water or gummy residue may flow inside the pipe and into your stove area. After the small portion of horizontal pipe, make a ninety and go verticle with as much pipe as you need to get well above the roof line. More is better.
Lastly, although you risk getting leaves and such in the pipe, for best results the opening of the pipe must be unobstructed (no listed caps etc.). I know this goes against mode local building codes, but it will allow a better air flow. With wood stoves, the way you pipe everthing makes all the difference.
Thanks to all. The info is great. A lot of things to think about.
Bill
The durorock idea to replace a window in an emergency is a good idea. Make sure your flue pipe extends at least three feet above your roofline or two feet higher than a horizontal distance measuring 10' between the chimney and the roof. In other words, code requires that if the flue comes out the side of your house and goes up past your eaves, you must go up until your roof slopes far enough to be 10' away, and then you must go 2 feet higher. This will prevent possible drafting problems and prevent ashes from starting a fire on your roof.
Ok, but what about gas stoves? We are currently building a house but our builder refuses to allow us to put in a fireplace or wood burning stove. The reason is that this new development is an inexpensive one and the builder feels that being strict on what is allowed and not allowed is what keeps costs down.
The builder will allow gas stoves and gas fireplaces.
My husband and I thought maybe we could do a gas stove upstairs then, after we had closed on the house, get a contractor to come and build a chimney for us on another part of the house (away from the vent for the gas stove) and install a woodburning stove in the basement.
My question is on the feasability of using a gas stove for emergencies. It would be all we had until we came up with the money to install the woodstove downstairs.
I'm concerned about whether natural gas would be available in an emergency and whether gas stoves get hot enough on the surface to cook on.
I've never posted here before. Just lurked in case anyone is wondering.
Lynda
It wouldn't hurt to put a nice looking natural gas fireplace in your family room. They aren't that efficient, but for non emergency situations they can be pleasant.
Later, when you want peace of mind, and the building inspector is not around, get a non vented propane heater that you can mount on your wall in the basement. This can only be used to heat living space. They cost about $200.00 and are available at most big hardware stores. I stayed in a cabin over the holidays and the owner had one mounted on the wall. It was amazing how much heat they put out and they burn so clean that venting is unnecessary in large open spaces. You can buy several large (20 gal.) propane tanks and store enough propane in your garage to last a long time. The 20 gallon tanks are not so large that you can't put one in the back of your car and take it down to get refilled.
To cook in an emergency I would recommend using a coleman-type cookstove (propane). For short periods this can be used in a food prep area with little trouble and you can also take it camping.
The real problem though is living in a subdivision that is so incredibly restrictive. Chances are you are going to have be selective with whom you talk about your emergency preparations. Generally people who live in pretty planned communities care little about storing fuel and such. And because they don't understand, they don't want their neighbors to do anything they consider "dangerous."
Ldrake, I disagree entirely with Dostler regarding use of a non-vented heater propane heater for your house. I am giving away one that I used in my cabin for 3 years. Propane when it burns gives off about 4 gallons of water for every gallon of propane burned. This water goes into the house and makes EVERYTHING wet. The walls could have free water on them, the windows will sweat profusely, and you will probably feel cold because of the high humidity in the house. Besides, you will always have a slight smell of propane in the house. To reduce those problems, you will have to increase the ventilation and there goes your heat. I recommend finding a thru-the-wall vented heater if you want to go propane and if you look around you may find one that even gets hot enough on top to keep a kettle of water hot enough for a good cup of brewed tea. I think the likelyhood of running out of natural gas is pretty low, it will just get more expensive, but so will propane. Propane is already quite a bit more expensive than natural gas.
Ldrake, I disagree entirely with Dostler regarding use of a non-vented propane heater in your house. I'm giving one away I had in my cabin after using it for 4 years. Propane when it burns gives off 4 gallons of water for every gallon of propane burned. This means you get a house full of humidity and the walls have free water on them, the windows sweat profusely, and you will probably feel cold because of the high humidity. Beside, there is always the smell of propane unless you ventilate well and then there goes the heat you thought you gained. I don't think there will be a problem with the availability of natural gas, just the cost. But propane is already quite a bit more expensive that natural gas. If you really want to go propane for any reason spend 4 times as much and get a thru-the-wall vented type. If you look around you should be able to find one that will have a hot enough top to keep a kettle of water hot for a nice cup of brewed tea. For cooking, a propane fired Coleman type stove will do well, just don't run it too much and ventilate the house while it is on.
Interesting perspective. But I question a couple of your points. You say you smell propane when burning your heater. That sounds like the heater you are using is not working properly. I hope you plan to tell the recipient of your giveaway heater that it isn't working properly.
I have other questions that may have a bearing on all this: How old is it? Does it use the ceramic elements or is it the old wire type? Where in the country do you live? Is it always humid there? Is the cabin well insulated?
The heaters I am referring to do not exhibit any negative characteristics. And they produce a very dry heat. I saw no signs of condensation as a result of the operation of the stove. In fact, I am trying to figure out how to put some moisture in the air because it is more healthy. And you say that you get 4 gallons of water from one gallon of propane? How is that possible?
The heaters I am talking about have 4 ceramic "elements" that glow red when heated. The heat is increased by enabling the heating of another element. They were amazingly efficient.
I have a vented heater of the type you are considering buying. It is old and uses the old technology where the flames heat metal in a verticle combustion chamber and then the exhaust is vented. But my exhaust is hotter than the air that is produced for my living area and I know the efficiency is way low. I burn so much propane with that heater that I can't afford to use it. All my heat goes out the vent.
Natural gas is safer and cheaper. But in an emergency you are dependent upon the gas company to supply it to you. Have you yet had the gas company tell you that you must have your gas appliances inspected and stickered? The reason they can do this is they reformulated their gas so it takes more cubic feet of gas to get the old amount of thermal energy. And because they decide to do this I have to pay to have my appliances recalibrated and re jetted. So now I pay more for less. That is dependency in which I would rather not participate.
While it is true that the same could happen with propane, it is also portable and can be stored. Not so with Natural Gas. Additionally, there are a variety of other useful appliances that can be run on propane (like a refrigerator). Get one of those and when your electricity is cut, you can start running on Propane. Also, if you buy your propane at a distributor who is on the pipeline, it costs much less than you pay at the local gas station.
It is still my opinion that new unvented stoves are the way to go. Safely operated (in conjunction with carbon monoxide detectors), they are a good source of heat emergency use. If I owned a cabin, however, I would also have a good woodburning stove that I could cook on and use for heat. But person who must live in a subdivision that does not allow wood burning is, of course, at a disadvantage there.
It's working fine. The odor is very slight but after going outside for several hours and coming back in, the characteristic odor is noticeable. The heater is only 4 years old. I bought it new and after noticing the odor asked the dealer about that. They said there is always a very slight smell and many people don't notice it. The cabin is in the mountains of south central Washington where the humidity is low. Some of the walls are well insulated, the windows are single pane.
The chemical formula for propane is C2H8. When it burns it produces 4 molecules of water and one molecule of carbon dioxide for every molecule of propane burned. The new technology vented propane heaters have an exhaust that is so cool sometimes the water will drip out of the exhaust pipe. Check them out sometime. You'll be impressed!
I don't know what is going on with your natural gas company. Nothing like that has happened here with me or any of the people I"ve checked with.
I am interested. Vented just seems safer. Particularly if the exhaust is as cool as you say. That means it is working very efficiently. Do you have any contact or product info on these new vented propane heaters? I have not purchased one yet and if I can get something that is safer I would rather do that. I have attached my E-mail address to this post so you can contact me directly.
About the gas company: I live in Utah and they recently said they would be purchasing from a different supplier (translated: lower quality at the same price). They have required everyone to get what they call a "green sticker" on all gas appliances. The heating and A/C contractors are loving it as they have plenty of business checking and upgrading older furnaces and water heaters. But I hate being told what to do and then have to pay for it too.
[quote]The chemical formula for propane is C2H8. When it burns it produces 4 molecules of water and one molecule of carbon dioxide for every molecule of propane burned.[/quote]
This may be true but that does not equate to one gal of propane producing 4 gal of water. Pound of propane will produce a little over 2 pounds of water no mater uow you burn it.
Good Ben: That's why I'm not a chemist. It's 1.64 pounds of water per pound of propane per my Engineering Manual. The carbon is so much heavier than the hydrogen it takes away from the per cent influence. Just to note, one pound of hydrogen when burned creates 8.98 pounds of water, just a little over one gallon of water. No matter, burning propane still creates a lot of water. Incidentally, burning one pound of propane also creates 2.99 pounds of CO2. I don't think I want that inside of a very tightly sealed house either.
Now Ben, just how many gallons of water is created by burning one gallon of propane? I don't have that conversion right handy.
no idea. my previous post was just a rough calculation using the atomic weights of each element as found in the preiodic table of elements. I am not a chemist, I just enjoy a good discussion. My wife says I just like to argue.
Ldrake,
I second Darrell's warning on keeping your preparations quiet. With all the fuel for a generator and spare propane tanks in my shed, my neighbors would get a little nervous if they new.
If it helps, I believe the formula for propane is C3H8 ("Methyl, ethyl, propyl, butyl...")
Americans Burning Corn to Cut Heating Costs
As US heating costs spiral to all-time highs, American homeowners are turning to burning corn in special stoves to reduce their energy bills. Sales of corn-burning stoves have tripled this year and distributors across the country have been sold out for weeks.
Full article at http://www.breitbart.com/news/2005/12/09/051209141924.flu6l9pn.html